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unusual markings: |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575  View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 11 Sep 2003 Caught a juvenile grass snake today near Fleet, Hants. The markings are most unusual, never seen one like this, it has a zigzag lateral pattern, making it look sort of adder like. Have photographed it, but cannot post, so I have left a message with Dave see if he will take pic on digi. (he will probably see this anyway). Tony |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 11 Sep 2003 Hi Tony , I'd like to see this snake , very interesting. How do you mean "See if Dave will take a pic Digi "? Do you have the snake captive then? Any prob's let me know , i'm only up the road from fleet and i'd be only to pleased to take the pic. Cheers, Alan O-> O+> |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575 View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 11 Sep 2003 Thanks Alan, I'll see if Dave gets in touch, if not, then we could make arrangement to meet. Tony |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 11 Sep 2003 Ok, Either way ,i'm looking forward to seeing this grass snake. Cheers, Alan O-> O+> |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575 View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 11 Sep 2003 Have been taking a better look at this little grass snake under a good light. When seen from the dorsal view the normal grass snake olive/green ground colour actual forms a dorsal zigzag, that is then edged with the black.Very unusual, sort of reminiscent of Vipera raddei or V.darevski markings. Its a one off, would have been good to see the rest of the brood though. Tony |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090  View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 12 Sep 2003 A "Gradder"??? Fantastic find Tony
Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 12 Sep 2003 Agreed! Great find and most unusual. Thanks for posting the pic. Alan O-> O+> |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 14 Sep 2003
Very unusual pattern Tony. I found this one the other week just north of Wareham will be obvious if I see this one again. British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 14 Sep 2003 Give up with that I think. Gemma is there any method of uploading JPEG's as a file directly without having a web site (which the majority of people do not have) as I am sure more people would post photos if they could do it more easily. British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090 View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 14 Sep 2003
Sorry about all that. David, you probably read before I deleted the duff post that I hope to open a public upload area for images on RAUK very soon to make things a little easier.
Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575 View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 14 Sep 2003 Seems a week for unusual grass snakes. Today I found two females, each with no trace of yellow/pale collar at all, and one was almost devoid of body markings, but a very nice shade of olive/green. The first female 82cm and the latter 75cm, both from the same site near Wareham. Tony |
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Chris G-O Member Joined: 14 May 2003 No. of posts: 36 View other posts by Chris G-O |
Posted: 03 Dec 2003 I was once given a couple of pickled grass snakes by Colin Howes at Doncaster Museum. They had thin yellow stripes running their entire length and they were labelled "Italian form". I didn't think anything of it but last year somebody phoned HCT reporting stripy grass snakes in the Don Valley, S. Yorkshire, and i began to wonder if the pickled specimens had in fact come from the wild in S. Yorkshire. Then at last Saturday's BHS snakes meeting, somebody told me about stripy grass snakes somewhere else in the 'North Midlands', can't remember who/where. So I'd be fascinated to know if there are any other reports like this. I haven't checked the Leighton, Smith or Frazer books etc. Chris Gleed-Owen Chris Gleed-Owen, Research & Monitoring Officer, The HCT & BHS Research Committee Chair |
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Chris Monk Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2004 No. of posts: 157 View other posts by Chris Monk |
Posted: 17 Aug 2006 The June issue of The Natterjack (BHS Newsletter) had an article on melanistic grass snakes in the UK mentioning two previous documented cases from Staffs in 1975 and Gloucester in 1971. It ended with saying "Finding a black grass snake here in the UK is like finding a needle in the haystack" We now have two needles in Derbyshire. Firstly Dave Arnold produced some photos of a melanistic grass snake found near Clay Cross in June. (published in July issue of the Natterjack). Then this Tuesday I was called out to a garden backing onto fields where a black snake had been found by the owner. It turned out to be a very active juvenile grass snake that was completely black. The garden is about 1 km across some fields from Dave's specimen, so it may be the off-spring of the one he found in June. The juvenile is temporarily housed in Sheffield with John Newton who hopefully will be able to post some pictures of it before returning it to the vicinity of where it was found. If you are lucky there might even be an account of how active it was, a British version of the soon to be released & much hyped in the media "Snakes in Planes" movie. PS Derbyshire Amphibian & Reptile Group www.derbyshirearg.co.uk |
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Robert V Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 No. of posts: 717 View other posts by Robert V |
Posted: 19 Aug 2006 Chris, Make that three will you! Last week I saw a small grassie that was completely black quite close to an atrophic pond in the north of Epping Forest. I am putting as much effort as possible into capturing for the photo records on here, but, as yet I haven't been successful. heres hoping. Cheers R RobV |
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Robert V Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 No. of posts: 717 View other posts by Robert V |
Posted: 19 Aug 2006 PS, and here's a particularly nice one of the said 'stripey variety'. Enjoy
R RobV |
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Chris Monk Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2004 No. of posts: 157 View other posts by Chris Monk |
Posted: 20 Aug 2006 Rob The PS on my posting should have been a call for forum members to look for melanistic grass snakes but I forgot to add it. With your one that's 3 seen just in the last two months this year. Any more out there?
Derbyshire Amphibian & Reptile Group www.derbyshirearg.co.uk |
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John Newton Senior Member Joined: 19 May 2005 No. of posts: 151 View other posts by John Newton |
Posted: 21 Aug 2006 Hi all Finally managed a few piccies of the melanistic grassie that Chris Monk retrieved from Clay Cross (Chesterfield) last week. Its taken a while since the animal escaped from a 'snake proof' bag in the boot of my car (bag now in bin), and following an abortive (and expensive) attempt by the VW main dealer to remove seat/door panels etc. it still refused to be found. It eventually reappeared following the introduction of a second 'smelly' animal which I like to believe was the key reason for recapture!!. Anyway, the animal is as melanistic as it gets, and virtually patternless - found less than 1 mile away from that shown on the back of the 'Natterjack' leaflet. Good chance of some interesting genetics at work here, so we will spend some targetted survey time here next year. The animal has fed this week (whilst I was waiting for the sun to appear, for piccies), and will be released at its point of capture.
John Newton South Yorkshire ARG |
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Chris Monk Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2004 No. of posts: 157 View other posts by Chris Monk |
Posted: 30 Aug 2006 Might even be some more black grass snakes, although they could be melanistic adders. Birdforum.net has a thread running that started in May about small black snakes. One seen at Pagham Harbour at the top of the beach in May and then another one seen by someone in their back garden at Sevenoaks in August. Any views from Kent or Sussex about those? Derbyshire Amphibian & Reptile Group www.derbyshirearg.co.uk |
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Chris Monk Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2004 No. of posts: 157 View other posts by Chris Monk |
Posted: 30 Aug 2007 To follow up this posting from last year, we have had another black grass snake in Derbyshire, this time on the southern outskirts of Chesterfield in early July. It is about 7km downstream of where the northernmost one was seen last year, so still in the same wider area suggesting there could be a genetic link between all three. Derbyshire Amphibian & Reptile Group www.derbyshirearg.co.uk |
- unusual markings |
